What To Say Now: Episode 11 — Using Email To Start Conversations That Lead To Contracts

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Show Notes and Links:

Valerie Garcia's Website (Scroll to the bottom to sign up for the newsletter): https://www.valeriegarcia.com
What To Say Now Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/whattosaynow

Full Show Transcript:

Dan Stewart (00:13): Hi everyone. I'm Dan Stewart, founder of Happy Grasshopper, and welcome to the 11th episode of What To Say Now. If you're watching this, here's why you should be. The whole world is organized with all these people in it that get to lead you on your journey and take you to where you want to go. When we started What To Say Now, we had some core beliefs. We want to share those with you at the top of every show. First core belief is that conversation leads to contracts. If you're a sales professional working in the real estate space, and you want more closings, it's not rocket science folks, you got to have more conversations to get more closings. For 10 years now, I've been focused on bringing the world closer together through conversation. Today, I'm really honored to have my new friend and guest Valerie Garcia join us for the show. Say hi, Valerie.

Valerie Garcia (01:07): Hi everyone.

Dan Stewart (01:08): All right. Awesome. I'm so glad you're here. This is so much fun to have a chat with somebody else who really gets email, just like I do. So, fist bump to you all the way out there in Grand Rapids. Boom. Yeah, awesome. I want to go ahead and invite you guys to ask your questions, as you're seeing this. Facebook usually needs a minute or two to gather an audience here. Those of you who are just getting here today, we're going to be talking about how to use email really effectively from two different perspectives.

Dan Stewart (01:41): Valerie has done an incredible job of building a subscriber list and sending a newsletter. It's worked very effectively for her. Of course, at Happy Grasshopper, we have a different focus. We generally don't create newsletters. We send short messages that are designed to start conversations. Valerie, I'd like to officially welcome you. Thank you very much for taking some time to chat with us today.

Valerie Garcia (02:05): Awesome. Thanks for having me.

Dan Stewart (02:05): All right. Yeah. I'm glad you're here.

Valerie Garcia (02:06): Always nice to get face to face with humans these days.

Dan Stewart (02:09): Yeah, no kidding, even if it's a zoom, right. We're acting like, oh my God, there was a person and I'm talking to them. It's great. It's so crazy. So crazy, but we're both people who are used to getting on a plane a lot more frequently than we've been able to in 2020. I definitely appreciate the way that we're all adapting to this new normal. It means a lot to me that you're taking time to be here today. I really appreciate that.

Valerie Garcia (02:35): Awesome.

Dan Stewart (02:36): All right. So let's dive in. Let's talk about your history with email. Can we get in our time machine and go back to when you said, you know what? I want to have a newsletter. What were your thoughts?

Valerie Garcia (02:49): Well, so I was starting my own business. It was four years ago. I wanted a consistent way to reach out to people and do two things. I wanted to make people smile and I wanted to remind them what I do. Those were my two main goals. I think it's super important to have a goal. Otherwise, you're just emailing for the sake of putting stuff out there.

Dan Stewart (03:10): Yeah, It's not [inaudible 00:03:09]. You don't get points for doing it. It should be [inaudible 00:03:12].

Valerie Garcia (03:13): I thought about blogging and I have a blog. I was already on social media. I wanted something that felt a little bit more personal. I started thinking about a newsletter, and I really wanted it to be more letter and less news. And so, I launched my Love Letter. That's been going out now for almost four years.

Dan Stewart (03:31): Love it.

Valerie Garcia (03:32): Yeah, I've learned a lot in the last four years. The subscriber list has grown to a crazy number. For a single person that doesn't have a huge machine behind them, and it was just like, "Hey, sign up for my stuff." Yeah, so it's been a really interesting and fun journey. I've learned a ton. Yeah, it went out again today.

Dan Stewart (03:53): That's awesome.

Valerie Garcia (03:55): Yeah.

Dan Stewart (03:56): You publish how frequently?

Valerie Garcia (03:58): Once a month.

Dan Stewart (03:59): Once a month you send out this message. How much time do you think you spend doing it?

Valerie Garcia (04:04): I mean, it depends on how much I'm procrastinating. One of the things that I've learned is don't just sit down to a blinking cursor and think, "What am I going to write?" I have a folder on my desktop, and in my notes, where I just shove ideas all month long. I have one already titled August that I've already thrown a couple of things in. And so, it's nice when you sit down and you have that bucket of stuff to draw off of, ideas, and quotes, and photos, and things that you want to share. That's been really helpful, and it cuts down on the amount of time that I spend on it. I would say on an average month, I probably spend two hours putting it together.

Valerie Garcia (04:46):Yeah.

Dan Stewart (04:47): With two hours of effort, do you mind sharing the size of that list, how many people you're really able to touch with that effort?

Valerie Garcia (04:54): Sure. I started out with about 600 people. I just pulled together all of my friends, anybody that I knew that I had email addresses for and dumped them in when I started. I was like, "Please don't unsubscribe." Now, I think we're somewhere around 12,000.

Dan Stewart (05:11): That's awesome.

Valerie Garcia (05:12): Yeah.

Dan Stewart (05:13): Great. Congratulations. I know a lot of people like to kick email today. Which is crazy, because it's still the highest ROI in all of marketing. I'm going to guess that you probably would not still be doing it four years later, if it wasn't really working well for you, right?

Valerie Garcia (05:28): Yeah, totally. I mean, I look at some of the stats that are out there right now. They say like 83% of business professionals prefer email, 73% of millennials. When I say millennials, I mean they're 40 now, not 14. We have to remember that we're talking adults. People are like, "Yeah, just send me an email." That's still a preferred method of communication. We still rely on that. It's still a really popular way to communicate.

Dan Stewart (05:59): Yeah. Email makes a lot of sense for a lot of reasons. A few that I always think about is it's really efficient. It's one to many, but it can feel very one to one. I imagine your Love Letter, you write it in a way where it feels like, oh, I'm really receiving her thoughts. Like, boom, there's a connection there that can happen, and you get to do at 12,000 people at a time. That's huge. That's great.

Valerie Garcia (06:22): Yeah. Well, and the goal always was, is write it the way that I talk. I wanted people to read it and hear my voice. I think that that has been the thing that's made it easy and fun to continue. I think that if I spent four years trying to be somebody else and to write from a different perspective, it would be really difficult. I wouldn't enjoy it. I wouldn't keep getting subscribers. I write in a way that's like, "Hey friends, here's some cool stuff." That makes it easy and fun fo r me and for the audience.

Dan Stewart (06:56): Yeah. I love that you share that, Valerie, because we are who we are. Why try to build a tribe of people that you really can't relate with. It's so much better, if we're going to plant a flag and be something, let's be what we are. It makes a lot of sense to me. I want to circle back a little bit to the concept of ROI with this, because I've been in the email space for almost 20 years. Prior to Happy Grasshopper, I built a CRM, which I exited in 2010. Everybody bought our CRM to send email. And then, the thing that really just drove me nuts was only 18% of our members ever sent email.

Dan Stewart (07:40): Happy Grasshopper, when we started was just an experiment. It was simply, hmm, if we write content, will people actually send it? That was the perspective that got this whole thing started here. With all this broad view, the landscape has changed so much over that amount of time. You've been sending very consistently now for four years, and in just four years, you've seen the landscape change tremendously. I'm curious if you could share anything about subject lines or message content that used to work, but now doesn't, or anything there that would be helpful for our audience.

Valerie Garcia (08:20): Yeah. It's really interesting to watch trends of what works and that sort of thing. What was trendy a few years ago, and what got people to open things, and what now people look at and are like, "That's junk," or, "I'm not going to open that." A super good example is people used to trick the system by using re:, like they're responding, so like replying. People got wise to that really quickly. And now, that's almost insulting. Like, "Hey, I don't need that junk in my inbox, if it's not a reply."

Dan Stewart (08:54): Don't try to hack me.

Valerie Garcia (08:55): Right. Exactly. The algorithms have gotten smarter too. If you're using Gmail, and most people are these days, Gmail's gotten smarter about what they shove to the bottom of the pile, and what gets through, and what goes into spam, and what goes into that promotions folder, sort of that black hole. And so, words like free and offer used to be one of those big, "Oh my gosh, I have to open this," but now-

Dan Stewart (09:28): Straight for promotional folder [inaudible 00:09:30].

Valerie Garcia (09:30): Never sees the light of day. Even words like now. The types of things where we think, "Oh, I want to create a sense of urgency." A lot of people teach people, create a sense of urgency in your subject lines. Sometimes, that stuff comes across so salesy no one ever sees it. I learned a lot about those kinds of words. And then, I'm also hearing lately, brackets. A lot of people tend to put the word video in brackets, just make it stand out. I'm finding now that Gmail's starting to shove that to the bottom of the pile. Interesting how the algorithms are shaping the words that we use too.

Dan Stewart (10:05): Yeah, it's true. We've seen this change over the past few years. The re thing that you mentioned, we used to do that. That was a really effective way to get your email opened, and get higher open rates once upon a time. The landscape is always changing. Today, emojis are working really well. Some people are like, "I'm not a 14 year old kid. I can't use emojis." It depends what your audience... Oh, you're that person.

Valerie Garcia (10:30): I struggle with emojis. I want to love them, but I'm just like, I don't know if I can use an emoji in a subject line.

Dan Stewart (10:38): OMG, LOL. I can't even.

Valerie Garcia (10:40): Oh, LOL I can do. Emojis, I don't know. Yeah, it's one of those weird lines. I was also one of those people that early on was like, "Hashtags, oh my God." And now, in certain cases you've got to use them.

Dan Stewart (10:51): Yeah. Yeah. There's a few things that occur to me as you're talking about this, because there's a difference between what our personal preferences are sometimes and what really works. We have to recognize, if we're building businesses, we need to communicate in an audience that the message will be heard. We've got to make sure we get through the filters to get delivered. We've got to make sure we've got the appropriate subject line to get open. We send hundreds of millions of emails a year. My advice for anyone watching this would be make your subject line match the body of the message. If there's incongruency there, Gmail, a lot of times, is going to shove that email off to another folder. You don't want to end up there.

Dan Stewart (11:39): I would also encourage you to stay away from super click baity headlines. I'll give you an example. You won't believe what Natalie Portman looks like now. You're like, "Oh God, Oh, it's so clickbait." You know it's a link you don't want to follow. That same technique, a few years ago, was effective for people. It's not effective today.

Dan Stewart (12:10): There are some things though that stand the test of time. They worked for us years ago. They still work really well today. One of our top performing subject lines that we've ever tested is, quick question for you. That's a pretty easy one, and it causes people to go, "Oh, it's just a quick question. I'll click, I'll answer it." They dig in that way. All right. Are you able to track or determine what the payoff for you is from creating this newsletter or working on it so consistently?

Valerie Garcia (12:42): Yeah. So it's been really interesting to kind of watch it snowball over the years. I send my Love Letter out the third week of the month, most months. I'm pretty consistent about that. I've tried different things on different times of day and different days of the week. That's been really interesting journey. I found really early on that inserting links and things that people could click through to see more of my stuff and to explore, the people who were clicking my links, the people that were sharing it, that were going in and viewing it more than once or twice, the likelihood that they were going to work with me, it just skyrocketed the more often they opened it. And so, I started seeing really early on, the people that were clicking on stuff more than eight, nine, 10 times, or opening it a couple of times, I was very likely to work with them.

Valerie Garcia (13:39): And so, at this point now, 40% of my annual income comes from my Love Letter.

Dan Stewart (13:44): Wow. That's amazing. Awesome.

Valerie Garcia (13:45): Yeah. Yeah. And so, these are people that have forwarded on and someone said, "Look, we don't know each other, but somebody sent me your Love Letter and I want to hire you." Or, people have said, "Hey, I'd love to have you speak for us. I got your name from so and so who gets your Love Letter." So, yeah, it's been amazing in terms of just word of mouth. It's also become this weird, funny, sort of like cult thing. People are always like, "I can't wait to get it every month. This is the one thing that I look forward to." It's very personal. It's very light. It's very fun. It's very casual. It's not something like I'm selling them something. It's just there's always something in there that's super fun to look at.

Dan Stewart (14:29): Yeah. Anybody watching this, go to valeriegarcia.com and subscribe. You want to take a look at this newsletter. You definitely do. There's a lot that you can learn in there. I would say that there's probably a lot you've learned about yourself here. Because, you've got this record now, four years of consistently doing a thing month, over month, over month, so it charts your growth, not just in subscriber count, but in what you've learned, your ability to make a difference in people's lives. It's all there recorded in that history, which is a super amazing thing, because that audience is actually yours. I'm going to take a moment. I'm a big social media guy. I love social media. And yet, if you distributed your newsletter via social media, I don't know that all 12,000 people would get it. The algorithms will change. You don't know if it's even going to show up for them. Kudos to you for carving out that space in people's inboxes, and quite frankly, in their minds. You've occupied a portion of their month. That's a really good thing to do.

Valerie Garcia (15:36): Do you remember when email first started, how you'd go into a store and that a clipboard at the cash register that said, "Get on our mailing list."?

Dan Stewart (15:44): I'm way too young for that.

Valerie Garcia (15:47): It was really cool back then to get email because you hardly ever got any. I still have my original Yahoo address from 1995. It was cool to get email. And then, email just became a pain, because we got so much of it, and we get so much junk. But then, we learn to manage it. And now, I feel like email's cool again, because we can control it. Like you said, there's no algorithms controlling what goes into our inbox. We have control. We can hit that unsubscribe button. We can decide what folder that goes into.

Valerie Garcia (16:20): I love the fact that now I can even snooze stuff in my inbox, and be like, "Come back tomorrow when I want to read that in the morning," or whatever. Remind me. Email's come a long way.

Dan Stewart (16:32): [inaudible 00:16:32] much.

Valerie Garcia (16:33): Yeah. And I think that we should remember that, that people originally had this joyfulness of, you've got mail. We originally had that like, "Oh, I got something, cool." And we can still give them that feeling if we take the time to make it something that they're like, "This is cool. I would share this."

Dan Stewart (16:50): Yeah. That's really fun that you say that. I appreciate that quite a lot, because years ago, 10 years ago, when we first started Happy Grasshopper, and I remember being on stage at the first few real estate events, and I would say to people, "They never made a sequel to You Got Mail." There's a reason for that. I mean, we looked away from it. And yet, email is just this workhorse that continues to show up. We've had multiple social networks pop up and disappear over that decade. I have a friend who worked so hard on Google+. She built a massive following, a huge audience on Google+, and all of that just got swept away. Your subscriber list is truly portable, whether you're sending from MailChimp, or Wix, or MyEmma, or Bronto Mail, or, or, or, or, that list comes with you. It's a real asset that you own. So, well done.

Valerie Garcia (17:47): I think there's a real responsibility there too. I take that responsibility really seriously. I don't spam my people. I'm not constantly just dripping stuff to get in front of them. It basically, when you sign up, you get an email that says, "Hey, you're going to get my monthly Love Letter, and occasionally something else that I think is cool." I would never be like, hey, I now have free range to just drop-

Dan Stewart (18:15): Thank you.

Valerie Garcia (18:15): ... stuff on you all the time. I think that's the reason why it has worked for me is that I'm not like... Oh my God, if you've ever signed up for World Market, that store, they email three times a day, every day, seven days a week. It's insane. I refuse to unsubscribe to them now because I'm just fascinated by the crap that they have to email about. It's almost a lesson in what not to do. We have to take responsibility for that. That opt in, there's value there, and we have to value it.

Dan Stewart (18:51): Yeah. The concept of frequency is something a lot of people struggle with. Like, how often should I do this? What's the best frequency for me to share this message? You just said it. It's not that you do it a month. It's that it matches the expectations you set. If I have a subscriber list and I promise the, I don't know, the recipe of the day, I better send a recipe every day. That's what they're expecting. If it's an hourly weather update, you better have your hourly weather update. Yeah, the right frequency is the one that you train the audience to expect and then consistently live up to it.

Valerie Garcia (19:32): Yeah, it's so true, so true.

Dan Stewart (19:34): You're probably familiar, I'm sure a lot of people watching this are familiar with how the social algorithms work today, where if we have people who immediately engage with content on social, that teaches the social platform to send that content to more people. It puts it in their feeds, it broadens the audience that sees it.

Dan Stewart (19:55): One of the things that we've seen, over the past few years, for really large send lists, is that the way people engage with it, initially, like let's say we're sending to a million people, well, if the first 10,000 people fail to open it, or mark it as spam, or complain about it, they're going to throttle that. The ISPs, the internet service providers, are not going to deliver it as broadly. I always think it's really huge, it's a massively important thing,, to set expectations with the reader and then do what you say you're going to do over time. Again, kudos to you for doing that.

Valerie Garcia (20:34): Thank you.

Dan Stewart (20:36): I love that you've done this so thoughtfully. People love to bash email, but 40% of your revenue, that's just great. That's really, really, cool.

Valerie Garcia (20:45): Yeah, it's awesome. I think, I mean, tying this to the title of this group, which is What To Say Now, I mean, I think what you say once you have them is also so important. I'm a huge storyteller. I mean, that's really who I am at heart is a storyteller. I think one of the things that I teach people all the time is that stories have to be complete. You would never watch a movie that didn't have a hero, because who are you cheering for? We would never like a movie that has no ending. It's just like, did they ride off into the sunset? What happened? We don't know. And so, the elements of story are super important.

Valerie Garcia (21:31): That rings true in emails as well. We can break it down into a really simple formula, which is just what, so what, now what. It's great that you tell them what, "Hey, this is happening," or "I have this listing," or "This is something that you should know." But, we have to follow that up with, so what. Why do you care and why does it matter to you? And then, now what. What should you do next?

Dan Stewart (21:55): That's a great point, because if you leave it to the reader to figure out why this should matter to them, a lot of them don't have time to do the work to figure it out. It's like, if you're asking people for referrals, you're asking them to do all the work. Just ask them if they know anybody who's thinking of moving, or anyone who wants to sell their house. That's a question they can answer. Yeah, I love that structure there that you break it down into something that's easy to follow, because, A, it's trainable, it's repeatable, and it's something that the reader comes to expect. Like, I know when I get this message from Valerie, she's going to tell me what it is, why it should matter, and what I should do about it. It makes a big difference.

Valerie Garcia (22:38): It doesn't have to be super complicated. It could be like, "Hey, this is cool. I really enjoyed it because it helped me see something a different way." Or, "This is something cool that you might want to spend time doing this weekend with your family." It doesn't have to always be, I'm never too busy for your referrals or, call me. It could be something fun, and light, and interesting. Letting people know why you're sharing that, and what your expectation of their action to be, is super critical. Because, a lot of people are just like, "Hey, I have a new listing." And you're like, "And..."

Dan Stewart (23:13): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah, where do we go with that? I love it. Yeah, the whole world is not waiting to have you announce that you have a new listing. Sadly, no one cares about that as much as you do and your sellers. So yeah, you've got to give them a reason to want to read that message and understand the impact it can have. There's something that hasn't been asked that I t hink people are going to want to know, because I hear this from people over, and over, and over again, they're like, "Oh, email is so old and busted. Open rates used to be great, but they're just, but they've fallen so much over the years." What would you say to someone who has that kind of attitude?

Valerie Garcia (23:54): Well, two things, one open rates, aren't everything. You can make yourself crazy obsessing about your open rates and your unsubscribes. That's not necessarily a healthy way to behave if you're going to do this longterm, because you're going to make yourself nuts. The second thing is, is that people respond to things that are emotional, that are interesting, that are thought provoking. If you put the effort in, your open rates are going to reflect it. People are going to respond. If you are consistently providing value, and I know that's such a overly used phrase-

Dan Stewart (24:40): Yeah, people get confused by that. How do I provide value? What is that? Is it telling them to turn their clocks back? Is it a recipe? I mean, you get to define what that is, but here's a clue, if the audience isn't responding to it, it's really not very valuable.

Valerie Garcia (24:53): That's right. I think my favorite lesson ever about that topic is Donald Miller's quote about the hitchhiker. Have you ever heard that one?

Dan Stewart (25:02): I haven't. No.

Valerie Garcia (25:03): He says, "Your customer is a hitchhiker, and you're driving down the road, and you pull over and roll down your window, and they say, 'Were are you going? Can you help me get where I need to go?'" That is your customer's only question, where are you going-

Dan Stewart (25:18): Where are you going [crosstalk 00:25:19].

Valerie Garcia (25:18): ... can you help me get where I need to go? And instead, we roll our window down and we're like, "Check out our cool car. I built it with my own bare hands. It's my daddy's company, and I made the playlist, and it's great. Look how great I look in it." We go on and on and our customer doesn't care. They just want to know, where are you going, and can you help me get where I need to go? I think one of the most important things when you're sending emails of any kind, whether it's a Love Letter, or a drip campaign, or anything is just, who is your audience and where are they going? Can you help them get there?

Dan Stewart (25:51): They have to understand that really early on, because we don't have forever to capture their attention. It's a wonderful thing to have it for just a moment. If we can't deliver that message really quickly and succinctly, we're going to lose them.

Valerie Garcia (26:04): Right. Yep. Yeah.

Dan Stewart (26:05): So it's kind of like-

Valerie Garcia (26:07): And that bucket doesn't include everybody. Every customer isn't going to the same destination. And so, if you try and make it so broad, that you won't appeal to anybody. I think that's the thing too, is there are people that have unsubscribed to my Love Letter because they're just like, "I don't want this." And I'm like, "That's cool."

Dan Stewart (26:26): That's fine.

Valerie Garcia (26:27): "Please unsubscribe, because you're screwing with my open rates, honestly." If it's not for them, they'll opt out and that's okay, because that means more concentration on the people that it is for.

Dan Stewart (26:41): Yeah. All marketing, I think, should be a little bit polarizing. I believe that the clients that I want to attract value being perceived as a real human being, rather than like a sales tool. I think a lot of salespeople have that perspective of, "Oh, now people hate me, because I sell stuff for a living." I really want to help salespeople show up as human beings. We could say all salespeople, but that's too broad. We've had to narrow it down, so that sort of perfect pitch, that really succinct thing, it should always include just a few elements. We help who do what. It's that simple.

Dan Stewart (27:25): In our, case we help real estate professionals create contracts from contacts. That's a broad statement, but it's really small. People can go, "Oh, I'm a real estate professional. Okay. I have contacts. I'd like to have contracts. I want to know more." Yeah, I'm on a bit of a tangent, but I love the work of Donald Miller. I've been listening to his podcast for years and I've followed the StoryBrand product launch. I haven't yet done a seminar yet, but I think he's very much on the right track.

Valerie Garcia (27:58): Yeah. Yeah. He's awesome.

Dan Stewart (27:59): It's good stuff.

Valerie Garcia (28:00): Yeah. I mean, that brings to mind too, one of my other favorite writers on the topic of writing, Ann Handley. One of the things she said early on in this COVID crisis is, is small term actions, long term goals. I think that ties in so well to what you just said is that everything can't be long term goal. Everything isn't, how is it going to get me all the way over there? Sometimes, the things that we do are just, how do I get one step closer to my long term goal? For me, that's really what my Love Letter was. It was just, what is one small thing that I can do that's going to get me in front of people eventually? And it does.

Dan Stewart (28:38): Awesome. Well, Valerie, I just, again, I want to reach through Zoom and give you a hug and a high five, because it's really awesome what you've been able to do. In four years, you've built a list of 12,000 people and you're seeing 40% of your revenue come from your email efforts. That's just like, boom, so awesome.

Valerie Garcia (28:54): I think that better than that 40% of revenue, which, I mean, that's great, but is the fact that every single month I probably get 30 or 40 personal emails that are just like, "This is just what I needed," or "Thank you so much," or "I loved that," or "That's so cool. I'm going to tell my kids." It's those moments, too, that... Don't discount those little moments, because those are the things people remember.

Dan Stewart (29:17): Yeah. For sure. Any lesson that you want to teach, if you can deliver it in a way that makes people smile or touches them, they're going to really remember, they're going to hang on to that. I love that you've called your newsletter A Love Letter. It's it says a lot about what people can expect from that. I'm going to remind everyone, again, go to valeriegarcia.com and subscribe to her Love Letter. I think you'll love it. Love it. It's a love letter, you should. We're getting to the point where it's time for me to wrap the show, Valerie. I really want to thank you for attending. It's been so great to hear about your success with email. I really appreciate your sharing with everybody.

Valerie Garcia (30:02): Well, thanks for having me. It was fun to chat.

Dan Stewart (30:04): Yeah, awesome. Here's what's next for us. This recording is going to go up on YouTube. You folks, if you're watching it there, please give us a like and a subscribe. Please also head over to Facebook and join our Facebook group at facebook.com/groups/whattosaynow. That would be awesome. We'll have this video published in that group here later today or early tomorrow. Now, our shows always happen at 2:00 PM Eastern time on Tuesday afternoons. And yet, next week, I'm going to be at a conference in Sarasota, so I won't be able to run the show at that time. I won't see everybody next Tuesday, but I will see you the Tuesday after that. Go make it a great day, everybody. Thanks again, Valerie, loved having you.

Valerie Garcia (30:51): Thanks, Dan. Bye guys.

Dan Stewart (30:53): Bye, everybody.

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